Ingmar Franz (duerer)

84 replies · posted

COLLAB 2021 - WIP - duerer

This thread is about my contribution to the "Fantasy House" model.

  • My models of the two chimneys so far:

    1) Left house side chimney


    2) Right house side chimney

  • Hi Ingmar, it looks super cool.

    it might just be the perspective form your screenshots, but they look a little bit too narrow imo compared to the chimney on the artwork. over there the section of the chimney looks to me more of a "fatter" rectangle closer to being square-ish :)

  • Testing the chimney placement on my house model from March 2021:

    1) Left house side: "Living and Shop Tower"


    2) Right house side: "Mill Tower"


    A personal variant with a "Spiral Staircase Tower" (since I thought that a mill wheel mechanism and a staircase wouldn't fit both into the "Mill Tower"):




  • duerer there is a discord channel set up for your team if you would like to go there to collaborate as well. Totally optional. I know you have a few team members there calling your name. I sent them to your CGCookie Collab Team Forum in the meantime.

    We other Spice Barons can hold the fort down there if you only want to collab on the Cookie.

    • Thanks, blanchsb, for the hint πŸ˜€! I first need to figure out how this "Discord" thing is working. If somebody is asking for me please let him know that I'm not (yet) familiar with that platform but will try my best to become quickly the best Discorder ever πŸ˜‰πŸ˜!

  • I decided to make the left house side's chimney end on the second floor because it would otherwise partly block the passage to the room above the bridge arc:

  • I really like the staircase idea! If we don't get a concept for. the back it's a valid option. Otherwise you should pitch it to the concept artist.

  • Hey duerer I really enjoy watching your creative thought process with all the additions you made. I've sent Kent my rough concept for the back side, but I guess I can post it here too. On the residence zone part we can't really have another entrance as it's the only wall for windows to get the natural light source into that room. On the 2nd floor there won't be any windows as there probably be a staircase, but I'll have to sketch the interior first to be certain. And in order to have a round object working with everything else we would have to change the overall composition and the positioning of the main objects. Sorry to cut everything like that and I hope you will find my concept equally appealing.
    Also with all the rush I forgot to add stone blocks to the corners of the watermill side part of the house, like on the front view, so maybe you can somehow make a note that it should be there. Another thing I discovered while revisiting my model, is that for some reason I didn't have the bridge go all the way through to the wall of the left block of the house. It doesn't matter for the front view, but it's clearly visible on the back view. It is intended to go all the way to the wall without any additional shapes, like on Ingmar's version, so in order to achieve that feel free to change the curvature of the arch as it won't be too much and it won't affect anything else.

    • hharbinger_ua Thank you, Vadim, for the backside view of your Fantasy House πŸ˜€! I like your creation very much, especially the oriel at the side of the "Mill Tower" πŸ‘ which I didn't expect! I have a few question:

      1) In my house reconstruction with FSpy, the roof alignment resulted in a slightly asymmetrical roof concerning the roof slope. If I now see your rendering of the backside, it looks symmetrical to me. Am I right?

      2) In the livestreams, we were thinking about the flow direction and the course of the creek:

      Β  Β  Β a) Is it flowing from the bachside of the house towards the front?Β 

      Β  Β  Β b) Is the water coming from the mountains?Β 

      Β  Β  Β c) Are the any artificial Β construction for holding back and directing the water?

      3) How did you model and place the roof tiles? I couldn't make matching the number of roof tiles in my house version with the number in your artwork (with the exception of the "Mill Tower").

      4) How deep do the chimneys reach into the building? The chimney in the front view left part ("Living and Shop Tower"?) partly blocked in my house version the passage to the bridge. The chimney in the "Mill Tower" would have ended outside the building but in your backside view it makes sense since there is the oriel. I'm asking because I'm wondering where a kitchen could be which I would expect on ground level.

      5) Are there any bridges crossing the creek outside the building?

      6) What about a garden where the spice vender maybe cultivates at least some spice plants?


      I hope that these were'nt to many question πŸ˜‰. Thanks for support of this Collab and your artwork which makes me dream 😊!


      PS: I sometimes think that with all the ideas that people here have concerning what could be inside the house, we would need a Harry-Potter-Style-House where the inside is far more spacious than what the outside would allow in real life πŸ˜‰πŸ˜!


    • After watching the vod of the 1st stream I have a feeling that some kind of a q&a session would really benefit this whole collab as there are a lot of questions about less obvious things in my artwork. But I'll do my best to answer allof your questions here.

      1) Yes, all the roof slopes are symmetrical. Any distortion might come from the camera angle and perspective.

      2) The creek flows from the mountains towards the viewer. To be honest at the time I didn't think about the ground level being lower behind the house would make it impossible to work like that. So I guess reversing the flow is a solid option, but it would affect the spin direction of the wheel which I'm not too happy about. I heard there were some suggestions about the dam, but I'm not exactly sure how it would solve the problem.

      3) Just modeled one tile, duplicated to make a column, adjusted angles and such, then duplicated columns along the slopes. That's pretty much it. Nothing fancy.

      4) Yeah since I didn't think about the interior when I worked on that piece, I kinda placed the chimneys so they would work well with the overall silhouette. And now I guess I'll have to figure out how to make them work inside the house as well :)

      5) Yes, I imagined the bridge to be behind the house. I'll try to make a general plan of the area tomorrow to indicate where everything is.

      6) I didn't plan to make any garden as my spice vendor gets all the spices from his journeys, and those few that he cultivates himself, grow in the oriel that you can see from the back.

      Yeah, I have a feeling that when I'll start working on the interior I'll need that Harry Potter spell too xD

    • Thank you, Vadim hharbinger_ua , for your answers πŸ˜€! This really helps with the creation of this beautiful fantasy world πŸ‘! Those team leaders I've spoken with so far agree with me that it's possible to make the creek flow from the mountains while still following the artwork.Β 

    • Awesome news! It really makes me happy that we can keep my original idea and actually make it work despite it's flaws. Dunno if Kent theluthierΒ  would be interested in making a q&a session if there are any more questions left, and if not, I'll be happy to provide any additional information here in forum threads.

    • hharbinger_ua we actually did already talk about it hereΒ in the last casual livestream but haven't yet voted on it or begun to model anything. We wanted to wait for your statement. blanchsb linked an image of a tiered waterfall which is from this article here. I like the idea of a waterfall in the forest. It could be there where the green trees in the mid-background indicate that the terrain is rising again with some foothills:


    • hharbinger_ua Do I see it right that the first level of the "Mill Tower" can only be accessed through the bridge since the mill wheel mechanism wouldn't leave enough space for full stairs (maybe just a ladder leading to a floor hatch for an emergency ?)?

    • hharbinger_ua there's another waterfall presented here by the same other whose article that I've linked two posts above.Β 

    • Failing any Harry Potter spells, there's always the option to call Gallifrey Construction, TARDIS Division, for tips. πŸ˜‰

    • vincav81 We need a teacher for learning more magic spells πŸ˜‰πŸ§™β€β™‚οΈ!

    • duerer yes I was thinking of a more steep staircase along the left wall. Since it's a production part of the house it doesn't require anything fancy.

  • Homework Submission - Week 1 - Chimneys

    theluthier This is my first homework submission for the Collab 2021:

  • So glad you are working on the Chimney. It's looking great so far.

  • A second version of the veranda (WIP) that allows windows at the backside of the house:

    I've also made Β the bridge arc run until close to the right side of the house in the image above as described by Vadim hharbinger_ua in this thread. Please note: This veranda is just a personal try, nothing official that will be implemented in this Collab2021.

  • Trying to eyeball the oriel:

  • Looks great so far! Also as I'm working on the interior, we might have to add one more chimney for the kitchen, which will be situated on the short side of the residential part roof, so it doesn't get seen from the main camera angle. I guess I'll have to release an updated version of the back view, since there are some things I forgot to add in all the haste, and some things need to be changed with the interior development.

  • I've updated my Spice Vendor's House blocking:

    Front view with a small part of the oriel at the right house side visible as well as the reshaped and repositioned blockout mill wheel:


    The same in wireframe mode:


    Aerial view from southwest:


    The house backside and southern side with the oriel, a repositioned and reshaped blockout mill wheel, the bridge arc extended to southern wall of the northern house tower, a third chimney which is hidden behind the left artwork chimney in front view and reaches down to the kitchen and finally my personal fun project, the veranda πŸ˜€:Β 


    My new veranda version allowing two house backside windows (no official Collab2021 part, just my personal fun πŸ˜‰πŸ˜):

  • I had to do some corrections on the chimney and detailed the third chimney which reaches down to the kitchen:

    Sculpting will follow now πŸ˜€.

  • Before starting the sculpting I've added some mortar in between the stones:

    It's only a subtle difference but adds to realism.

  • Instead of an Homework Submission - Week 2 - Chimneys theluthier

    This is my first trial on sculpting the chimneys (here the left chimney in the artwork) after having almost completely rebuilt the chimneys again:

    Ok, this is something, the question is: What exactly? I definitively need more trials since this is simply ridiculous. I probably have to add more subdivisions because there is a noticable stretching in some areas when sculpting with Multires.

    • Second attempt, with more and evenly added manual subdivision before adding the Multires Modifier. I'm using "Face Sets" in order to mask out the mortar joints ("Face Set" for the joints created from an "Edit Mode Selection"):

    • duerer man I was struggling with the face sets. I wonder if it was because my base mesh was not high poly to begin with. That brick pattern texture looks great.

      I would maybe like to see even more authentic battle damage like the one in your face set there!

    • Thanks, blanchsb! The stone texture is made from procedural "Cloud" texture and the damage is actually a hole visible in Vadim's hharbinger_ua artwork. I'll try to add some more damage but this will make some changes in the low-poly mesh necessary if it's deeper holes, especially those which affect the silhouette. It's tedious work because the number of stones rises with the widenening towards the bottom so that I can't simply use a cuboid with lattice deformation. But I think that it will pay off in terms of realism. Today I had a lot of work with smoothing edges:

      1) BeforeΒ 

      2) After

      Now, I'm working down the chimney again adding dents and cracks and more roughness in areas where I had to smoothen the edges. Here the top of the chimney:

      Some corrections to the lowpoly mesh will be necessary because the angle of some faces has slightly changed during the edge smoothing.

    • crew

      I'm sorry to read that week 2 gave you a hard time duerer. It looks to me like you're focusing too much on high frequency detail and not the broader shapes like scraping off the hard, perfect edges in favor of a hand-chiseled look. Here's a quick video of me sculpting a few of your chimney stones:

      90% of this is only the Scrape brush chiseling the perfect, uniform blocks into imperfect, hand-made versions. I also used the Crease brush to vary the depth of the crevice between blocks. The goal here is "handmade" and "imperfection".

      Once you achieve these broad accents, you might not even need high-frequency texture detail like you were pursuing. That tends to look too realistic anyway.

      Let me know if this helps!

    • theluthier That definitively helps πŸ˜€πŸ‘! I want to get that done quickly and start texturing the chimney. And after this, I'll make them smoke πŸ˜‰πŸ˜! Thank you for showing the "Edit Mode" view as well since I had a problem with pinching at some stone corner. You obviously avoid this by making the sharpening bevel Β (serving as holding edges for the later Catmull Clark subdivision with the "Multires Modifier") running through the mortar joints. When it comes to the finer stone structure (like e. g. sandstone, tuff or pumice), I experienced that I needed a more even and therefore more dense manual subdivision because the stone pattern looks like an array of horizontally orientated rectangles which causes an ugly stretching with small detail brush textures. So, do I see it right that I just texture paint this graininess and only bake normal textures for the bigger details like e. g. cracks?


      PS: One technical question about tablets: How often do you need to replace the pen's nib?

    • theluthier I'm wondering how far I'll have to edit the low-poly mesh since using the Scrape brush also changes the silhouette at the edges which probably will cause problems when baking normal maps to the low-poly mesh with its hard edges.

    • Trying to apply what Kent theluthier demonstrates in his video above:

    • Quick update concerning the chimney sculpt:

    • The house's left chimney with more dents and some cracks as new feature:

    • Sculpting of the left chimney finished for the part which is visible in Vadim's hharbinger_ua artwork:

      Thank you, Kent theluthier , for your very helpful video above on how to sculpt the chimney.

    • From a different angle with a more realistic color:

    • Left chimney from Vadim's hharbinger_uaΒ  artwork finished:

      File is here. What do you think, Kent theluthier?

  • The chimney on the "Mill Tower" (WIP):

  • A smoke test:

  • crew

    duerer Your latest chimney sculpt looks good! It looks like you're sculpting both chimneys separately. I'd recommend only doing one and duplicating to the other side. If you're worried about the chimney inside the house, I suggest to not worry about that. The more I look at the chimney placement the more I think we'll have to cheat their placement inside.

  • The "Normals Texture" assigned to the low-poly mesh of the "Living Tower's" (left house side) small chimney: