65 replies ·
posted April 7, 2021 3:07pm
This is my thread showing my humble progress thorugouht this collaboration project.
I know this is a tiny piece of the puzzle, but I am determined to make the best out of it. I've got a basic mesh done for the vase C, but I am not sure what to do in the case of the material. At first it seems like the vase is made out of 2 parts (bottom brown one and the top light brown), but when I think about the way it is made, the only logical solution is that it is painted. now do I solve it with texturing at the end or modelling the 2 separate surfaces?
The vase is one piece!
With ceramic, or in this case terracotta, they often 'glaze' (part of) the vase (or other object).
So they first bake the clay model and then put on a thin layer of 'glazing' fluid and bake it again.
I don't know how this works exactly, but you can see that the 'glazed' part of the vase is more shiny than the rest.
In CG this will be a shading (material) thing. Do not make the vase into two parts!
Your vase looks really good, btw :)
Thanks Spikeyxxx for the comment. That makes perfect sense. I will give that a go. 👍
I was watching the casual video theluthier did earlier today. Very interesting stuff I must say, even if he said that nothing was actually done, but there was a lot of brainstorming and problem solving which is equally as important as modelling in 3D. I probably would say that in the engineering world this stage is more important than the 3D modelling side (this comes form a design engineers perspective)
I was originally working on the vase C project but after getting the shape done, my eye was constantly drawn towards the water wheel and how I would actually make it. I've done some projects in the past where wheels and chains were involved
My immediate thought (as I am sure probably all the other designers in this collab thought) was that the wheel is made out of a series of buckets and this was mainly because of the top 2 components where it looks like water is sitting.
When you check the next 2 parts it looks like the water is dripping from the side of the "buckets" and not from within.
Also, one big give away is that those 2 "buckets" should be sitting vertical and not pointing towards the axis. That is when I decided to look into it in more detail to see how it would be manufactured and how it would work. It seems that all the wheels that have buckets on are the ones that sit under a waterfall or an aqueduct from where the water would fall into. the only other reason why these would be buckets, would be if the water was coming in from the top. see illustration below
The other option then was quite obvious. These are paddles and then it would tie up with the bottom 2 paddles and the 2 top ones would have just a sheen of water on the surface of them. This is where I then decided to look into this in more practical terms and look into the proportions. I personally feel that these paddles can be made in 2 distinct ways. 1) each paddle is 1 thick slab of wood or 2) it is a box made out of "standard" size wood planks. option 2 would be overkill in engineering terms as you don't gain anything by having a box. On the other hand option 1 is equally as bad simply because of the sheer weight of the whole wheel when assembled and there would be no actual gain in the way it would work. It would just be too heavy to assemble and fit in position.
However, I think right now we should go ahead with option 2 and be true to the artwork and still keep some sort of credibility at the same time. I might be overthinking this to be honest, but in my profession I need to be sure that everything fits instead of leaving it to chance. and I know this is an artistic 3D model and not a functional one. below is my initial interpretation of this wheel, I think that the spigots that connect the main shaft to the outer wheel should be re-designed. instead of having them connect to the paddles ,they would need to connect to the outer rims (I hope this makes sense and thank you for taking your time on reading this super long comment of mine )
anyway, here is the continuation of the vase C project. I think I am getting there.... baby steps :)
I'd say that option 1 for the water wheel is very unlikely, as the only function of the wheel is, to drive (probably ) milling stones ( or some other mechanism...) and the only thing driving the wheel is the 'river'.
But then again, it's art, not CAD.
ssimonsez11 nice work with that vase :D. low poly and i love that its not perfectly symytrical (or how its writen xD)
thanks yyukinoh1989 , I thought that it adds a little bit of realism with having the vase a bit wonky.
I also did a lot of research. The buckets, as has been said, only make sense if the water falls from above. And even then, they don't always put them in. I think they are just plain wood, although depending on the art, they may be too thick.
Some kind of buckets then the water is falling down
Water water flowing "normally"
I'm glad that our bucket chaos is permeating alternate forum posts. We've come to similar conclusions. The thing that was tripping me up further is that the paddles seem to have an exaggerated angle when they're shedding water, as though they in fact tip down toward the bottom. And this could be be engineered at further loss of efficiency by making them pivot on an axis while limiting the pivot with a brace. That being said, I assume the exaggerated angles are just a combination of artistic styling and the height of the water flowing out obscuring the visibility of the paddle itself. Simple chonky paddles seem to be the best option.
I agree with you lexicolopolis about just modelling paddles instead of hinged buckets. That is the most logical solution for the type of waterwheel, can't wait to see what you guys are gonna come up with. I would think the the 2nd picture uploaded by ladymito is closer in terms of type of waterwheel.
I've added some texture to the vase, but to be honest I feel like it looks bland and boring. I'll give it another go I think.
ssimonsez11 Great work so far on the vase as well as on the mill wheel 👍! The vase from last Friday is more low-poly-style although the vase from last Thursday has a beautiful shape but has too many vertices for such a low-poly-vase. I'm very pleased that you're already testing the texturing of the vase. Please keep in mind that baking details of a higher-res-model into a texture for a low-res-model has to be taken into account, too. Kent theluthier will demonstrate the sculpting of details for a low-poly-object and the texturing during next week's livestream and I'm sure that we will learn a lot from him 😀!
Garnishing a modeling with sculpting detail
Texture painting a color map
ssimonsez11 Just a quick reminder. We still need a name for our team? What's your vote?
1) Shabby Chic
2) All Access(ories)
3) Shabby Fresnel Chic
4) The Stan Dalones
Hi duerer , thank you fro your feedback on the vases. regarding the team name. I like number 4 - The Stan Dalones.
here is my last update on the Vase C design. I have already posted this picture on the main team thread, but i thought I'll add it here too.
HOMEWORK SUBMITION - WEEK 1 - VASE C
Here is my block out model of the VASE C project under ACC_Standalone. Does this have too many vertices?
Strange, I could have sworn I graded yours already. Sorry for the delay!
You did excellent week 1 work. Perfectly adequate vase base meshes and even dabbling with texture painting! Don't worry about the texture being a little simple at the moment: I always start this way. But once we extract texture maps from the sculpted detail, the simple color will level up instantly in week 3.
Hi theluthier , no problem at all. Thank you very much for your feedback on my vase C. I am here only to learn as much as possible and to enjoy this collab. I am looking forward to your next live stream. I've totally forgotten about the casual stream this thursday, so I will make sure to check it out later today. thanks again for great work you and your team are doing at CG cookie. P.S. I am currenlty beeing headhunted by a company that makes manequins/ limbs for the medical industry (for students to train on) and they use a bit of Zbrush and Blender. my 2nd interview is next Tuesday, so it will be interesting to see how they use those softwares :)
ssimonsez11 Congratulations to your vase grading👍! Best wishes for your new job 😀!
Here is my 1st propper go at sculpting the vase C. it looks a bit weird . almost like wet clay.
That's already looking good👍! Please keep in mind that the final shading will kind of blur the sculpted details as you can read in this post here (scroll down to the orange frame if needed) and my answer to it.
Hi theluthier & duerer , I have tried a couple of times to get the sculpting done properly. I am not entirely happy with it, but due to other commitments this weekend this is the best I could come up with. I pinkie-promise that I will get back on track on week 3.
Thank you to both of you for your time at checking my work.
I hope that I have uploaded the file correctly on Google drive
Beautifully sculpted accents ssimonsez11. You have the right amount of general texture stamping, roughed-up edges, and cracks/chips. I have zero constructive criticism to give. This will be an excellent normal map bake 👍
Also congrats on the head-hunting - that's so exciting! Best wishes for your second interview. If you have to miss the stream for it, I guess I can forgive you 😉
Thanks theluthier for the feedback. I've got the interview in the morning and your stream is in the evening UK time, so all good for me to join :). I have to be honest, working on this vase was quite rewarding, especially after I have managed to dig out my OLD OLD wacom tablet - a whopping 12x11cm pen area. To use it is a challange on its own
ssimonsez11 Really good job 👍! I can only agree with theluthier !
Here is my progress so far. I've re-done the unwrapping and added the textures again. I will probalby start with the baking on this and then go into adding the spice.
Excellent 👍! I escpecially like the fingerprint pattern and the damage parts😀.
I am currently stuck at the CAVITY bake. I can't get to make it work to save my life.
Hi theluthier ,
I've managed to get the high res model done to the point where I was happy with it. see image above this message. then, I started on the baking process. 5 hours later I am still working on it. To be honest, I think I have bitten more than I could chew based on my blender capabilities. I thought I understood the process from your live videos, I have even checked out other videos on YouTube, including the CG cookie ones. my problem, I guess is that I don't have a clue what I want to achieve here (Omar and Spikey have tried to give me some advice too). what I want, in very simplistic terms, is to make the low res model look like the high res one. the only map I have managed to get done is the normal map (not perfect, but just acceptable). when I get to the cavity one, I get stuck. to cut the long story short, I don't think I will be able to submit my homework on time. I think I need to get away from the PC for a few hours and start from scratch again. I am hoping to have better luck on this tomorrow.
I have attached here a screenshot of my material setup on the high res model. my problem here is that I don't even know what questions I have to ask to be able to get any help on this. I will eventually get there, but I just feel right now that nothing I try works. this is just another one of those hurdles of learning a new skill and fortunately I have been in this position before in my life to know that when this is overcome, a lot of things will fall into place after it.
No worries, ssimonsez11 , you've already show great progress with your textures creation 👍 and week 4 has been planned by theluthier as a buffer so that everybody in delay can catch up. I'm very pleased what I'm seeing so far from your work 😀!
Hi duerer , thank you for the reply. I think that should give me enough time to sort my model out. If I won't chat to you in the next few days, then I will see you at the next live stream
ssimonsez11 I'm looking forward to your final model 😀!
Me too duerer . I hope I can do the project justice and get over this "small issue" . I've seen some amazing modelling from everybody so far, so it would be a shame to mess it up now. I'll give it my best shot 👍
I have decided to re-do the vase C from scratch. I think some of the issues I got with the baking process was to do with the modelling.
Unfortunately the low res model doesn't look so great :(
ssimonsez11 Wow 😀! That's what characterizes a true artist: Redoing a work from scratch in order to make it even better! The low-poly model just needs, as far as I can see it, two or three more edge loops in the mid-section in order to achieve a rounder silhouette. The combined textures themselves are looking fine 👍!
Hi duerer thanks for the feedback. I will try that out right now and see how it comes together 👍
ssimonsez11 - George, I hope you don’t mind my responding to your kind message over here in your WIP. Thank you for your comments.
All assets are important. But, your’s especially. Perhaps you have not thought of this, but I would maintain that out of this whole project it is you that has the most important asset. The project calls this asset a “vase." But, to our Spice Vendor, this item is his Product. Per Vadim, the Spice Vendor travels the lands to buy his raw spices. He has a cart that transports them home. My vision is that he hangs his spices to dry within the Production part of the building. The spices are ground through the power of the watermill. Our protagonist puts the ground spices in the Product Container and proudly carries it over the footbridge. Entering the Market area, he places it on the crate where it will be sold to his customers. If not for your “vase,” there would be no Product and no Spice Vendor. Hence, I think that your asset has a great deal of significance in this whole scene.
And, I also happen to believe that your asset fits perfectly within the style of the concept art.
I am glad that you are enjoying this experience; I share your sentiment on this collaborative project.
Thank you, splat21 , for pointing to the importance of the vase 😀! It's a story behind every asset that has to be kept in mind and you've described it vividly 👍!
splat21 that is a very interesting way of viewing the importance of the vase and each asset in that respect. I see your point here, I have to agree with duerer about the way you have described the spice vendors routine. After seeing yesterdays stream, especially towards the end where Kent was brining bit by bit new finished assets, I can see how we can all contribute in bringing life to Vadims artwork.
Hi theluthier & duerer , I have finally managed to work out the baking process properly. I had to re-do the work form scratch twice and had probably 3-4 goes at the baking process of the materials. I got confused because I was using multiple textures to create the final finish of the vase. I think right now I got the balance right. I hope this model will be good enough to make it on the final project. Can you please have a look at the 3D model to see how I can improve it? or is the detail reasonable for the job?
Also, is it OK that I have used nodes instead of textures and sculpting to create the spice? or do I need to bake that too?
Thank you and I am looking forward to your reply.
ssimonsez11 That's looking great 😀👍! I would just add two additional loop cuts in order reshape the mid-section of your vase rounder:
I think that theluthier wants all textures to be baken, even if they have been created procedurally. Since the spice cone has no complicated topology a "Bump Map" which could be a greyscale version of the "Color Texture" is enough for redirecting the normals. But I would ask theluthier for a final word if he would accept your solution with the node setup and "Procedural Textures".
Hi duerer , thank you very much for the reply. I am just "scared" that by adding a few loops it will mess up the unwrap and then I have to start form scratch again.
on the other hand.......you are right :) it does need a few loops added
@simonsez I've added one loop cut and scaled it slightly up ("Median Point" as pivot point). The UV map autmatically updates the added loop cut:
Don't worry, as long as you don't deform the mesh too much, this won't mess up the textures on your object 🙂!
duerer that is awesome. thanks for looking into this. I have already give it a go and it does improve the model a lot 👍
ssimonsez11 This model is fantastic. I love the texture quality in the porous clay to the glazed area and the granular spice in the pottery. Your attention to detail is sublime.
Hi ullreym thank you for your kind comments. I do try my best to get all the details right. but as with everything in life, there is much to be improved on.
theluthier thanks a lot for the casual stream you did yesterday. It was extremley helpful. my main issue with my model was how to combine multiple texture finishes in a very simplified method. your suggestion with the Separate RGB node was pricelesss. I have tried it out on my model and I am super happy with it. I will concentrate now on doing the same to the spice.
I think this is becoming to be almost a daily thing for me now. this is ANOTHER from scratch modelled vase C (I think this is now at rev3-ish). Anyway, I have decided to add some cracks on the main surface, not just chips off the edges. The only thing left now is to do the combine of all the textures as per Kent's last casual video.
Wow 👍! You're really becoming a "Vase Expert" 😀! I would just give the cracks a slightly different color. Are these cracks supposed to be just a surface damage of the glaze or the result of a repaired broken vase?
duerer . Thank you for your comment. They are supposed to be surface damages. but after doing all the work and uploading it, I have realised that the base of the vase was wrong at sculpting and transferred to the low poly version. It bugged me soo much that I decided a few hours ago to start AGAIN :( I'm at rev 4 right now from scratch again. I think I am all vased-up
Hi theluthier & duerer I have submitted and uploaded my final revision of the asset. I have done quite a few models from scratch until now, I think this one is the best so far. Could I have done better? most probably. But considering that there isn't a lot of time left and this asset is not going to be seen up close, I think this should be good enough. I am looking forward to any feedback you might have. duerer , I have taken your comment on board regarding the colour difference at the cracked areas, I have done my best on that, but I think if I gave it another go and took some proper reference pictures, then it could look a lot better. on a more positive note, I have to admit that by re-doing all the steps again from scratch, I have learned a little bit more every time. So, in the end I guess it was worth it :)
Wow, George; that is some vase! Looks amazing!
I love the glaze! It looks a lot like the salt glaze that is common on stoneware. 😍
Thanks spikeyxxx & lexicolopolis for your comments. It has been quite a mini project for me. This was re-done so many times, that I'm dreaming vases now 🙂. I was thinking maybe to add the CG cookie logo somewhere inside, or have the logo engraved like cracks. Dunno yet.
I'm dreaming vases now
LOL, I know what you mean, I am dreaming of grass...(and no, that is not something I did anyway....just because I'm Dutch...)
Nice idea with the logo.
ssimonsez11 You did an incredible job 😀👍! I very much like your finished vase 😊!
Hi duerer thank you very much for your comment. You also did an awesome job on your chimneys and keeping us all in check on the collab thread at the same time. So thank you very much for dedicating your time on this.
I am soo glad that I've decided on Sunday to re-do the whole vase again. otherwise it would have bugged me even more to see the issues with it on the closing live stream. I am looking forward to working on the interior. I'll probably look into some reference images to see how I can contribute to this new collab.
To be honest though, I must admit I would never have been able to achieve what I just did this month without your help and everyone else in this project community. The whole collab vibe and the live streams pushed me to try and improve my blender skills. I'm still a long way from being a decent Blender artist, but as my boss always likes to say: "how do you eat an elephant?......Bit by bit".
ssimonsez11 Thank you very much for your kind words 😀! I'm happy to read that you could benefit a lot from this collab 😀 and I share with you the pleasant anticipation of the "House Interior" collab. Omar dostovel isn't only a very skilled CG artist, but also a philosopher, comedian and great storyteller with a big heart in one person 😀!
Thanks a lot Ingmar. Those are very kind words.
And I still think George should've worked on the Bush. Wasted golden opportunity.
That means a lot to me dostovel that you think so highly of me. I watched both you and duerer on last year's digger project and I was sooo jealous for not knowing about that colab when it started. On the other hand it was a lot of fun to watch. I chose the vase mainly because I wasn't sure at what level my blender capabilities were, so I decided to play it "safe" and make the best vase I could possibly do. But with this new colab I am determined to create more stuff and get myself out of the comfort zone. BRING IT ON!!! Booyakasha!!! (And now I'm doing a mental Hulk Hogan shirt rip)
ssimonsez11 That's the right spirit 😀👍! I share Omar's dostovel estimation of your amazing artistic skills 😀! So, let's help Omar dostovel to create the best "Fantasy House Interior" ever 😀!